It was delayed a bit, but should be not too much longer. I want to get the two new "DataGrid-llke" components in Extras, ListViewer and FlowViewer a bit closer to operational first. That'll be B9/RC1, probably followed by one more RC that will hopefully become 3.0.
I hope you will continue keeping up the good work! Echo is a very nice framework. Recently I have used also Vaadin which has very similar programming model, but I find Echo APIs much much convenient and intuitive. I just think you guys should make some releases more often, so somebody evaluating this framework will not think it as a dead project.
Please submit any comments on Vaadin vs Echo API to Vaadin forums. We are preparing for Vaadin version 7 development and would really much appreciate your comments on how to make Vaadin API better.
Tod - I noticed you are busy building Android apps now and just wondered if there are any plans to resume work on Echo3 or should we assume it's pretty much reached end of life as far as NextApp is concerned?
There are certainly plans to continue work on Echo3 and see the 3.0 version of both Echo, Extras, and EchoStudio released. As indicated in the tracker, most everything is done in Echo3, but there are still some outstanding issues there (e.g., the pulldown menu-based text component pasting synchronization bug).
The roadmap for Extras on bugs.nextapp.com is a bit out of date, with the big DataGrid needing to be replaced by the ListViewer and FlowViewer controls originally developed for the WebSharing Echo-based Android app. The remaining major issue for EchoStudio is to finish the major example app (a redo of the email app) which will utilize these controls.
Between commercial Echo support, EchoStudio, and the Android-based stuff there's a bit too much to work on at present. I do apologize for the delay but am more than happy to accept high-quality patches for remaining issues.
The lack of a recent release is understandably very annoying. Current SVN and the latest beta should however be considered quite stable, and in my estimation both are vastly superior products to any Echo2 release.
I can confirm that the current release (beta8) is indeed a very stable release. We use it in a productive application. Because of the clear architecture and design to separate java and javascript and bring the rendering into the client the whole framework is easy to maintain and understand.
Thats why it beats any other framework like GWT, Wicket or Echo2.
We ourselves developed a handful components and will soon distribute them in an own project. So Echo can not be dead.
My wife is helping me use the Echo based part of a web app to do some simple data entry... while sitting next to her the amount of frustration this bug is giving her makes me very scared about how other users experience the site.
I've told her that after pasting text into a text field she MUST click somewhere outside the field to change the focus so that the pasted text will 'stick'. Of course this is completely unnatural and so she, understandably, occasionally forgets meaning that her changes are completely lost - frustrating.
She just asked me how is everyone else who doesn't have the benefit of me sitting with them telling them about 'the trick' is meant to use the website. This question hit home really hard because I love Echo but it made me realize that I can't really expect others to be able to use our website while ever it uses Echo with this bug. I have to seriously consider dropping Echo from our web application which I don't really want to do as it's a great framework and the app contains hundreds of Echo forms... a scary but, quite likely, necessary course of action if this bug is not fixed soon.
My main motivation for choosing Echo way back in 2006 was to shield myself from all the javascript under the hood (and all the browser incompatibility issues that I'd previously battled in previous web app experiences) and so I've been able to create quite sophisticated, cross browser capable, web 2 apps with virtually no Javascript coding - all pure Java.
While I could invest the time to improve my javascript skills in order to fix this and other Echo3 issues taking that road kind of defeats the main motivation for using Echo in the first place. I have to decide whether it's better to do that or invest the time in porting the app to a different framework without these issues. I'd rather stay with Echo because I like it and I know it well but as I realized today these current issues make it a non workable solution for our users.
Yes it is, very much
Yes it is, very much so.
The trunk of SVN/nightly builds are actually generally quite stable. Nightlies are available here: http://download.nextapp.com/downloads/echo3go/
When can we expect a release?
When can we expect a release?
It was delayed a bit, but
It was delayed a bit, but should be not too much longer. I want to get the two new "DataGrid-llke" components in Extras, ListViewer and FlowViewer a bit closer to operational first. That'll be B9/RC1, probably followed by one more RC that will hopefully become 3.0.
It's still definitely alive
It's still definitely alive and kicking. The forums are kind of quiet, but I actually think that's because the dang thing "just works". ;-)
I hope you will continue
I hope you will continue keeping up the good work! Echo is a very nice framework. Recently I have used also Vaadin which has very similar programming model, but I find Echo APIs much much convenient and intuitive. I just think you guys should make some releases more often, so somebody evaluating this framework will not think it as a dead project.
API
Please submit any comments on Vaadin vs Echo API to Vaadin forums. We are preparing for Vaadin version 7 development and would really much appreciate your comments on how to make Vaadin API better.
Quickly approaching a full
Quickly approaching a full year since the last release.
Tod - I noticed you are busy
Tod - I noticed you are busy building Android apps now and just wondered if there are any plans to resume work on Echo3 or should we assume it's pretty much reached end of life as far as NextApp is concerned?
There are certainly plans to
There are certainly plans to continue work on Echo3 and see the 3.0 version of both Echo, Extras, and EchoStudio released. As indicated in the tracker, most everything is done in Echo3, but there are still some outstanding issues there (e.g., the pulldown menu-based text component pasting synchronization bug).
The roadmap for Extras on bugs.nextapp.com is a bit out of date, with the big DataGrid needing to be replaced by the ListViewer and FlowViewer controls originally developed for the WebSharing Echo-based Android app. The remaining major issue for EchoStudio is to finish the major example app (a redo of the email app) which will utilize these controls.
Between commercial Echo support, EchoStudio, and the Android-based stuff there's a bit too much to work on at present. I do apologize for the delay but am more than happy to accept high-quality patches for remaining issues.
The lack of a recent release is understandably very annoying. Current SVN and the latest beta should however be considered quite stable, and in my estimation both are vastly superior products to any Echo2 release.
Thanks for speaking up, Tod!
Thanks for speaking up, Tod! I think we all look forward to new stuff from NextApp.
Echo3 stable in Production
I can confirm that the current release (beta8) is indeed a very stable release. We use it in a productive application. Because of the clear architecture and design to separate java and javascript and bring the rendering into the client the whole framework is easy to maintain and understand.
Thats why it beats any other framework like GWT, Wicket or Echo2.
We ourselves developed a handful components and will soon distribute them in an own project. So Echo can not be dead.
Good to hear! :-) We have
Good to hear! :-) We have been die-hard Echo2 users since December 2005, and have never looked back. Looking forward to upgrading to Echo3!
Fixing the "text component pasting synchronization bug" - yes!!!
My wife is helping me use the Echo based part of a web app to do some simple data entry... while sitting next to her the amount of frustration this bug is giving her makes me very scared about how other users experience the site.
I've told her that after pasting text into a text field she MUST click somewhere outside the field to change the focus so that the pasted text will 'stick'. Of course this is completely unnatural and so she, understandably, occasionally forgets meaning that her changes are completely lost - frustrating.
She just asked me how is everyone else who doesn't have the benefit of me sitting with them telling them about 'the trick' is meant to use the website. This question hit home really hard because I love Echo but it made me realize that I can't really expect others to be able to use our website while ever it uses Echo with this bug. I have to seriously consider dropping Echo from our web application which I don't really want to do as it's a great framework and the app contains hundreds of Echo forms... a scary but, quite likely, necessary course of action if this bug is not fixed soon.
Have you tried fixing it
Have you tried fixing it yourself?
Even with only a smattering of javascript knowledge, you can get a long way with Firebug.
Javascript conundrum
My main motivation for choosing Echo way back in 2006 was to shield myself from all the javascript under the hood (and all the browser incompatibility issues that I'd previously battled in previous web app experiences) and so I've been able to create quite sophisticated, cross browser capable, web 2 apps with virtually no Javascript coding - all pure Java.
While I could invest the time to improve my javascript skills in order to fix this and other Echo3 issues taking that road kind of defeats the main motivation for using Echo in the first place. I have to decide whether it's better to do that or invest the time in porting the app to a different framework without these issues. I'd rather stay with Echo because I like it and I know it well but as I realized today these current issues make it a non workable solution for our users.
Seems to me like the time
Seems to me like the time spent trying to resolve the bug is most likely far less than a port to a different framework.
Echo seems to be dying slow
Echo seems to be dying slow and sure...
only hope
I hope that you do not have a true. Echo (2 or 3) is quite nice project.
Do you about some other alternative solution?
Ignore his comment. A
Ignore his comment. A definitive statement has already been made by NextApp above.